03/22/2007
PBS: Charlie Rose

Click here to view the interview.

Below is an excerpt of a transcript from the interview:


CHARLIE ROSE: Tonight, we continue our week-long look at the four- year anniversary in Iraq. We talk this evening about the crisis in refugees. It is estimated that two million Iraqis have left their country since the invasion. About 50,000 more leave each month. Many have left for Syria and Jordan; others have found refuge in Egypt, Iran and Lebanon. Only 466 have been resettled in the United States since the war began.

Earlier this year, the Bush administration announced it will increase funding and raise that number to 7,000. However, many say that the U.S. is still falling short in its moral responsibility towards the Iraqi people.

Joining me to talk about all of this, Ken Bacon, the president of Refugees International...

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KEN BACON, PRESIDENT, REFUGEES INTERNATIONAL: Well, this is emerging as the world`s biggest displacement crisis. We have two million refugees who have left Iraq, and they`re mainly in Syria and Jordan. These countries are overwhelmed by the refugees. Jordan has recently closed its border to most of them, so now they can`t have that sanctuary that they`ve had for the last couple of years.

Internally, there are another 1.9 million displaced, and the U.N. predicts that there will be another million displaced internally by the end of the year. So we`ll have -- and we could have another million externally as well -- so we could now have -- we could have six million refugees by the end of the year.

CHARLIE ROSE: Beyond being a humanitarian crisis, what else is it?

KEN BACON: Well, it`s clearly a -- this is -- people are leaving because of insecurity. They do not trust the U.S. and the Iraqi authorities to restore security in Iraq soon enough, so they`re getting out. They`re under threat now. They don`t think conditions are going to improve.

This has created economic and other problems in the surrounding countries. But it`s primarily, from a U.S. standpoint, a crisis of confidence in the U.S. ability to make Iraq stable.

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CHARLIE ROSE: Ken, in a situation like this, a country to survive needs its middle class. They`re the doctors, they`re the lawyers, they`re the small-business people. If they are fleeing, what happens to a society who needs to build for the future at some point?

KEN BACON: This is a huge talent exodus, and the people leaving are exactly the people who have to be in Iraq to help rebuild it -- they`re doctors, they`re lawyers, they`re professionals of all sorts, and they`re the middle class. So this is going to take Iraq a long time to recover from.

But let me just say that this story, very moving, could be said about hundreds of thousands of people. They all have slightly different stories, but it`s the same flight from terror to find safety in another country. Some people came with resources, but if they did, maybe a year or two ago, those resources could well be used up by now. So they`re living with friends, with families, or they`re living on the economy. They can`t work.

This isn`t a classic refugee crisis, where people are going into camps. It`s not like Darfur. These are urban refugees, primarily, being absorbed in Damascus and in Amman.

There is one other factor here. Most of the people that my colleagues at Refugees International talked to last fall, when they were in Syria and Jordan, say they don`t want to stay there. They want to go to Europe. They want to go to the U.S. They want to go to Australia. So this is not going to be a localized problem. People want to get out of the region. They want to get to a place where they have a future. They don`t see a future back in Iraq. They don`t see their future in Syria. They see their future elsewhere.

CHARLIE ROSE: Let me ask both of you. First of all, if you are 18 and a young man, they`re not going to let you in Jordan and places like that anymore, are they?

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KEN BACON: It`s very hard, it`s very hard now for Iraqis to get into Jordan. Jordan is frankly overwhelmed...

CHARLIE ROSE: More than almost a million refugees.

KEN BACON: Well, they have probably about 750,000 in Jordan. Syria has been very welcoming, but Syria is getting overwhelmed as well. But they remain welcoming. Jordan is having a harder time. They`ve had security problems already from Iraqis, and of course, they have a huge Palestinian population that`s been there for more than a generation. So they`re very worried about being overwhelmed by another refugee population.

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CHARLIE ROSE: What is the attitude of the U.S. government in terms -- Ken, first, let me ask you. What should the government do? And is it prepared to do it, whether it`s -- I realize there`s an international need here, too.

KEN BACON: Yes. The first thing we have to do is set up a program to protect those who have risked their lives to help the U.S. effort.

CHARLIE ROSE: These are people like the interpreters.

KEN BACON: These are interpreters, they`re drivers, they`re office workers, they`re security guards. People who work for the military, work for the State Department, work for contractors, and now can`t stay in Iraq anymore because they`re seen, as George said, as collaborators.

So we have to find a way to help those people. And...

CHARLIE ROSE: But are we not doing it?

KEN BACON: Well, we just started.

CHARLIE ROSE: And are we not doing it because there`s a fear that if we bring them -- bring Arab -- bring people who are refugees from Arab countries, that they`re scared somehow that...

KEN BACON: No, I don`t think that`s the fear. I do think there is a security concern, obviously, after 9/11. And -- but this applies to everybody. It applies to Hmong refugees from Laos, it applies to Korean refugees from Burma. Security concerns are universal. They apply to everybody.

Clearly, we have to go through security checks for everybody being resettled in the United States. I don`t think they`re measurably more complex for people coming from Iraq than they are for people coming from Laos, for instance. But...

CHARLIE ROSE: You don`t?

KEN BACON: I don`t think at this stage, they are. I could be wrong...

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KEN BACON: But it`s an urgent one. And that`s the point. We have a program now, it`s small numbers and going slowly. It needs to be large numbers and going fast. Because these people are in desperate shape. And it is a moral obligation.

We did let in 134,000 Vietnamese in the year we left Saigon, the year we left Vietnam. We`ve let in 134,000, resettled them in the United States.

CHARLIE ROSE: How many Iraqis have we allowed in?

KEN BACON: We`ve allowed in less than 500 in the last -- in the last four years. Now...

CHARLIE ROSE: Less than 500.

KEN BACON: Less than 500. Now, the State Department has announced plans to let in 7,000, referred to them by the U.N. high commissioner for refugees. And they may allow more in, but that will be 3,000 in the current fiscal year, which ends at the end of September...

CHARLIE ROSE: But tell me again, why the argument George just made, that it is a matter -- and Ford said -- a matter of national honor, doesn`t resonate? Or does it? If it does, why don`t they do more?

KEN BACON: I think George put his finger on it, that this -- we were retreating from Vietnam. We were pulling out. We are not retreating from Iraq. Our official policy is that we are in Iraq -- in fact, we`re increasing our troops in Iraq now, and our official policy is that we are going to stabilize Iraq by committing more troops and more money to Iraq. We`re spending $10.3 billion a month now in Iraq.

So it`s an entirely different political situation. We have the president every day assuring us that the program`s going to work and the country will become more stable, and people will be able to go home. And in fact, if you look at refugee remedies, the best remedy for refugees is to create situations that allow them to return home safely. But we can`t predict that`s going to happen in the next six or 12 or 18 months or 60 months right now.

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KEN BACON: Just one point. We may not know how to stabilize Iraq, but we do know how to protect refugees. America`s been doing this for centuries. We do know how to do this. We did it in Vietnam. We did it after Cambodia. We can protect these people. We can, should, and must do a much better job.

CHARLIE ROSE: Thank you, again. Thank you, George. Thank you, Zina.

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